Alfonso De Angoitia
Insider
Activist
First SEC filing: Feb. 14, 2022 · Latest: June 5, 2026
Insider at
Insider transactions
3 buys (P)
1 sells (S)
Net: $9,952,811
Avg return of open purchases vs now: -2.5%
Price change vs current quote, split-adjusted for corporate actions since the filing — not benchmarked, not annualized, not size-weighted
| Date | Ticker | Code | Shares | Price | Value | Owned after | Δ own | A/D | vs now |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Sept. 30, 2026 | LILAP | A | 1,163 | $8.28 | $9,630 | 49,552 Direct | +2.40% | Acquired | 145.8% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2026 | LILAP | A | 2,326 | $8.22 | $19,120 | 106,581 Direct | +2.23% | Acquired | 147.6% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 2, 2026 | LILAP | P | 313,104 | $20.95 | $6,559,529 | 476,190 Indirect | +191.99% | Acquired | -2.9% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 1, 2026 | LILAP | P | 17,596 | $20.65 | $363,357 | 163,086 Indirect | +12.09% | Acquired | -1.5% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Aug. 31, 2026 | LILAP | P | 145,490 | $21.00 | $3,055,290 | 145,490 Indirect | · | Acquired | -3.1% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2026 | LILAP | A | 2,455 | $7.79 | $19,124 | 104,255 Direct | +2.41% | Acquired | 161.2% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2026 | LILAP | A | 1,227 | $7.84 | $9,620 | 48,389 Direct | +2.60% | Acquired | 159.6% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2026 | LILAP | A | 2,455 | $7.79 | $19,124 | 104,255 Direct | +2.41% | Acquired | 161.2% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2026 | LILAP | A | 1,227 | $7.84 | $9,620 | 48,389 Direct | +2.60% | Acquired | 159.6% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 17, 2026 | LILAP | J | 1,935 | · | · | 1,935 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 16, 2026 | LILAP | J | 14,894 | · | · | 14,894 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 5, 2026 | TV | A | 12,574,570 | · | · | 12,574,570 Indirect | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 5, 2026 | TV | A | 12,066,300 | · | · | 12,066,300 Indirect | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 5, 2026 | TV | A | 268,470 | · | · | 268,470 Indirect | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 3, 2026 | TV | A | None | $30518001.00 | · | 6,307,262,714 Direct | · | Acquired | -100.0% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| May 4, 2026 | TV | X | 277,500 | · | · | 0 Indirect | -100.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| May 4, 2026 | TV | S | 44,500 | $0.57 | $25,365 | 38,813,509 Direct | -0.11% | Disposed | 301.8% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| May 4, 2026 | TV | X | 277,500 | $0.09 | $24,975 | 38,858,009 Direct | +0.72% | Acquired | 2444.4% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 31, 2026 | LILAP | A | 976 | $8.64 | $8,433 | 47,162 Direct | +2.11% | Acquired | 135.5% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 31, 2026 | LILAP | A | 1,953 | $8.82 | $17,225 | 101,800 Direct | +1.96% | Acquired | 130.7% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2026 | LILAP | M | 7,477 | · | · | 46,501 Direct | +19.16% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2026 | LILAP | F | 315 | $7.58 | $2,388 | 46,186 Direct | -0.68% | Disposed | 168.5% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2026 | LILAP | M | 14,954 | · | · | 100,476 Direct | +17.49% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2026 | LILAP | F | 629 | $7.77 | $4,887 | 99,847 Direct | -0.63% | Disposed | 161.9% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2026 | LILAP | M | 7,477 | · | · | 0 Direct | -100.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2026 | LILAP | M | 14,954 | · | · | 0 Direct | -100.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 13, 2026 | LILAP | A | 6,452 | · | · | 6,452 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 13, 2026 | LILAP | A | 12,904 | · | · | 12,904 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Dec. 31, 2025 | LILAP | A | 1,185 | $7.39 | $8,757 | 39,024 Direct | +3.13% | Acquired | 175.4% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Dec. 31, 2025 | LILAP | A | 2,370 | $7.46 | $17,680 | 85,522 Direct | +2.85% | Acquired | 172.8% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2025 | LILAP | A | 1,092 | $8.29 | $9,053 | 37,839 Direct | +2.97% | Acquired | 145.5% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2025 | LILAP | A | 2,185 | $8.44 | $18,441 | 83,152 Direct | +2.70% | Acquired | 141.1% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2025 | LILAP | A | 1,398 | $6.10 | $8,528 | 36,747 Direct | +3.95% | Acquired | 233.6% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2025 | LILAP | A | 2,797 | $6.22 | $17,397 | 80,967 Direct | +3.58% | Acquired | 227.2% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 31, 2025 | LILAP | A | 1,467 | $6.33 | $9,286 | 35,349 Direct | +4.33% | Acquired | 221.5% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 31, 2025 | LILAP | A | 2,932 | $6.21 | $18,208 | 78,170 Direct | +3.90% | Acquired | 227.7% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2025 | LILAP | M | 3,937 | · | · | 33,990 Direct | +13.10% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2025 | LILAP | F | 108 | $6.69 | $723 | 33,882 Direct | -0.32% | Disposed | 204.2% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2025 | LILAP | M | 7,874 | · | · | 75,453 Direct | +11.65% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2025 | LILAP | F | 215 | $6.66 | $1,432 | 75,238 Direct | -0.28% | Disposed | 205.6% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2025 | LILAP | M | 3,937 | · | · | 3,937 Direct | -50.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2025 | LILAP | M | 7,874 | · | · | 7,874 Direct | -50.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 14, 2025 | LILAP | A | 7,477 | · | · | 7,477 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 14, 2025 | LILAP | A | 14,954 | · | · | 14,954 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Dec. 31, 2024 | LILAP | A | 635 | $6.36 | $4,039 | 30,053 Direct | +2.16% | Acquired | 220.0% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Dec. 31, 2024 | LILAP | A | 1,271 | $6.34 | $8,058 | 67,579 Direct | +1.92% | Acquired | 221.0% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2024 | LILAP | A | 481 | $9.58 | $4,608 | 29,418 Direct | +1.66% | Acquired | 112.4% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2024 | LILAP | A | 963 | $9.49 | $9,139 | 66,308 Direct | +1.47% | Acquired | 114.4% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2024 | LILAP | A | 476 | $9.61 | $4,574 | 28,937 Direct | +1.67% | Acquired | 111.8% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2024 | LILAP | A | 953 | $9.62 | $9,168 | 65,345 Direct | +1.48% | Acquired | 111.5% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 31, 2024 | LILAP | A | 564 | $6.97 | $3,931 | 28,461 Direct | +2.02% | Acquired | 192.0% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 31, 2024 | LILAP | A | 1,127 | $6.99 | $7,878 | 64,392 Direct | +1.78% | Acquired | 191.1% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2024 | LILAP | M | 3,109 | · | · | 27,897 Direct | +12.54% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2024 | LILAP | M | 6,219 | · | · | 63,265 Direct | +10.90% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2024 | LILAP | M | 3,109 | · | · | 3,110 Direct | -49.99% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2024 | LILAP | M | 6,219 | · | · | 6,219 Direct | -50.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 12, 2024 | LILAP | A | 7,874 | · | · | 7,874 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 12, 2024 | LILAP | A | 15,748 | · | · | 15,748 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Dec. 31, 2023 | LILAP | A | 625 | $7.31 | $4,569 | 24,788 Direct | +2.59% | Acquired | 178.4% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Dec. 31, 2023 | LILAP | A | 1,250 | $7.34 | $9,175 | 57,046 Direct | +2.24% | Acquired | 177.2% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2023 | LILAP | A | 562 | $8.16 | $4,586 | 24,163 Direct | +2.38% | Acquired | 149.4% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2023 | LILAP | A | 1,123 | $8.16 | $9,164 | 55,796 Direct | +2.05% | Acquired | 149.4% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2023 | LILAP | A | 529 | $8.75 | $4,629 | 23,601 Direct | +2.29% | Acquired | 132.6% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2023 | LILAP | A | 1,058 | $8.62 | $9,120 | 54,673 Direct | +1.97% | Acquired | 136.1% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 31, 2023 | LILAP | A | 470 | $8.31 | $3,906 | 23,072 Direct | +2.08% | Acquired | 144.9% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 31, 2023 | LILAP | A | 940 | $8.26 | $7,764 | 53,615 Direct | +1.78% | Acquired | 146.4% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 20, 2023 | LILAP | A | 6,219 | · | · | 6,219 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 20, 2023 | LILAP | A | 12,438 | · | · | 12,438 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | M | 781 | · | · | 22,772 Direct | +3.55% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | F | 170 | $8.02 | $1,363 | 22,602 Direct | -0.75% | Disposed | 153.7% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | M | 1,562 | · | · | 53,015 Direct | +3.04% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | F | 340 | $7.96 | $2,706 | 52,675 Direct | -0.64% | Disposed | 155.7% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | M | 781 | · | · | 4,427 Direct | -15.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | M | 1,562 | · | · | 8,854 Direct | -15.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | M | 2,604 | · | · | 24,595 Direct | +11.84% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | F | 170 | $8.02 | $1,363 | 24,425 Direct | -0.69% | Disposed | 153.7% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | M | 5,208 | · | · | 56,661 Direct | +10.12% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | F | 340 | $7.96 | $2,706 | 56,321 Direct | -0.60% | Disposed | 155.7% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | M | 2,604 | · | · | 2,604 Direct | -50.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | M | 5,208 | · | · | 5,208 Direct | -50.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Dec. 31, 2022 | LILAP | A | 1,142 | $7.53 | $8,599 | 21,991 Direct | +5.48% | Acquired | 170.3% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Dec. 31, 2022 | LILAP | A | 2,284 | $7.60 | $17,358 | 51,453 Direct | +4.65% | Acquired | 167.8% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2022 | LILAP | A | 1,487 | $6.19 | $9,205 | 20,799 Direct | +7.70% | Acquired | 228.8% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2022 | LILAP | A | 2,974 | $6.15 | $18,290 | 49,169 Direct | +6.44% | Acquired | 230.9% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2022 | LILAP | A | 1,176 | $7.80 | $9,173 | 19,312 Direct | +6.48% | Acquired | 160.9% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2022 | LILAP | A | 2,352 | $7.79 | $18,322 | 46,195 Direct | +5.36% | Acquired | 161.2% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 31, 2022 | LILAP | A | 952 | $9.70 | $9,234 | 18,136 Direct | +5.54% | Acquired | 109.8% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 31, 2022 | LILAP | A | 1,904 | $9.59 | $18,259 | 43,843 Direct | +4.54% | Acquired | 112.2% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2022 | LILAP | M | 538 | · | · | 17,184 Direct | +3.23% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2022 | LILAP | M | 1,076 | · | · | 41,939 Direct | +2.63% | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2022 | LILAP | M | 538 | · | · | 3,049 Direct | -15.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 15, 2022 | LILAP | M | 1,076 | · | · | 6,098 Direct | -15.00% | Disposed | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 11, 2022 | LILAP | A | 5,208 | · | · | 5,208 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| March 11, 2022 | LILAP | A | 10,416 | · | · | 10,416 Direct | · | Acquired | (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Dec. 31, 2021 | LILAP | A | 798 | $11.66 | $9,305 | 16,646 Direct | +5.04% | Acquired | 74.5% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Dec. 31, 2021 | LILAP | A | 1,596 | $11.40 | $18,194 | 40,862 Direct | +4.06% | Acquired | 78.5% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2021 | LILAP | A | 699 | $13.08 | $9,143 | 15,848 Direct | +4.61% | Acquired | 55.6% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| Sept. 30, 2021 | LILAP | A | 1,398 | $13.12 | $18,342 | 39,266 Direct | +3.69% | Acquired | 55.1% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2021 | LILAP | A | 653 | $13.86 | $9,051 | 15,149 Direct | +4.50% | Acquired | 46.8% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
| June 30, 2021 | LILAP | A | 1,306 | $14.10 | $18,415 | 37,868 Direct | +3.57% | Acquired | 44.3% (price as of 2026-10-05) |
Showing latest 100 of 153 transactions
P = Open-market purchase · S = Sale · A = Grant/award · M = Option exercise · G = Gift · F = Tax withholding
Insider transactions are not a recommendation; sales are often driven by liquidity or tax reasons.
Derivative holdings (Form 4 Table II) Options, RSUs and convertible securities reported on Form 4 Table II.
| Date | Ticker | Security | Underlying | Exercise price | Expiration | Shares | A/D |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| June 17, 2026 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units P | Series A Preference Shares | · | March 15, 2027 | 1,935 | Acquired |
| June 5, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Long-Term Retention Plan [F6] | CPOs [F6] | · | April 10, 2032 | 12,574,570 | Acquired |
| June 5, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Long Term Retention Plan [F6] | CPOs [F6] | · | April 10, 2032 | 12,066,300 | Acquired |
| June 5, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Stock Purchase Plan [F6] | CPOs [F6] | · | · | 268,470 | Acquired |
| June 3, 2026 | TV | Mandatory Convertible Debentures [F1] | Series "A" Shares [F1,F5] | · | · | · | Acquired |
| May 4, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Stock Purchase Plan [F1] | CPOs [F1] | · | · | 277,500 | Disposed |
| March 15, 2026 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | March 15, 2026 | 7,477 | Disposed |
| March 15, 2026 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | March 15, 2026 | 14,954 | Disposed |
| March 13, 2026 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | March 15, 2027 | 6,452 | Acquired |
| March 13, 2026 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | March 15, 2027 | 12,904 | Acquired |
| March 15, 2025 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | March 15, 2025 | 3,937 | Disposed |
| March 15, 2025 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | March 15, 2025 | 7,874 | Disposed |
| March 14, 2025 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | March 15, 2026 | 7,477 | Acquired |
| March 14, 2025 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | March 15, 2026 | 14,954 | Acquired |
| March 15, 2024 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | March 15, 2024 | 3,109 | Disposed |
| March 15, 2024 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | March 15, 2024 | 6,219 | Disposed |
| March 12, 2024 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | March 15, 2025 | 7,874 | Acquired |
| March 12, 2024 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | March 15, 2025 | 15,748 | Acquired |
| March 20, 2023 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | March 15, 2024 | 6,219 | Acquired |
| March 20, 2023 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | March 15, 2024 | 12,438 | Acquired |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 781 | Disposed |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 1,562 | Disposed |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 2,604 | Disposed |
| March 15, 2023 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 5,208 | Disposed |
| March 15, 2022 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 538 | Disposed |
| March 15, 2022 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 1,076 | Disposed |
| March 11, 2022 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 5,208 | Acquired |
| March 11, 2022 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 10,416 | Acquired |
| March 16, 2021 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 3,587 | Acquired |
| March 16, 2021 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 7,174 | Acquired |
| March 15, 2021 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 4,227 | Disposed |
| March 15, 2021 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 8,554 | Disposed |
| Oct. 5, 2020 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | Oct. 5, 2020 | 372 | Disposed |
| Oct. 1, 2020 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C [F2] | Class C Common Shares | · | Oct. 5, 2020 | 372 | Acquired |
| Sept. 21, 2020 | LILAP | Subscription Right (Right to Buy) - Class C Common Shares [F1] | Class C Common Shares | $7.14 | · | 7,098 | Disposed |
| April 1, 2020 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 2,084 | Disposed |
| April 1, 2020 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 4,168 | Disposed |
| March 13, 2020 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 4,227 | Acquired |
| March 13, 2020 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 8,554 | Acquired |
| May 1, 2019 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 3,030 | Disposed |
| May 1, 2019 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 6,060 | Disposed |
| April 1, 2019 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 2,084 | Acquired |
| April 1, 2019 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 4,168 | Acquired |
| May 1, 2018 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units A | Class A Common Shares | · | · | 3,030 | Acquired |
| May 1, 2018 | LILAP | Restricted Share Units C | Class C Common Shares | · | · | 6,060 | Acquired |
Exercise/conversion price is blank when not applicable (e.g. RSUs).
Initial ownership (Form 3) 9 holdings
Securities held when first becoming an insider, per SEC Form 3.
| Date | Ticker | Security | Shares | Ownership |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| March 18, 2026 | TV | CPOs [F1] | 43,131,949 | Direct |
| March 18, 2026 | TV | Series "A" Shares | 13,166,166,402 | Indirect |
| March 18, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Stock Purchase Plan [F1,F3] | 277,500 | Indirect |
| March 18, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Long-Term Retention Plan [F1,F5] | 1,517,160 | Indirect |
| March 18, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Long-Term Retention Plan [F1,F6] | 1,517,160 | Indirect |
| March 18, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Long-Term Retention Plan [F1,F5] | 10,548,873 | Indirect |
| March 18, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Long-Term Retention Plan [F1,F7] | 11,055,435 | Indirect |
| March 18, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Long-Term Retention Plan [F1,F5] | 22,659,660 | Indirect |
| March 18, 2026 | TV | CPOs held in Long-Term Retention Plan [F1,F8] | 23,583,760 | Indirect |