Manish Goel

Insider

First SEC filing: Oct. 20, 2009 · Latest: Oct. 20, 2009

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Insider at Companies where this person is a reporting insider.
Insider transactions Every share this person bought or sold, from Form 4 filings.
Derivatives Options and other derivative holdings reported by this person.
Initial holdings The stakes this person held when they first started reporting.
Compensation Executive pay disclosed in company proxy statements.

Insider at

NTAP selling Feb. 24, 2012

Insider transactions

0 buys (P) 0 sells (S) Net: $0 + 93 non-open-market transactions below last 12 months, based on the transactions shown below

Price change vs current quote, split-adjusted for corporate actions since the filing — not benchmarked, not annualized, not size-weighted

93 other filings hidden

Date	Ticker	Code	Shares	Price	Value	Owned after	Δ own	A/D	vs now
June 19, 2012	NTAP	M	1,000	—	—	24,657 Direct	+4.23%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	M	1,666	—	—	26,323 Direct	+6.76%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	F	300	$30.90	$9,270	26,023 Direct	-1.14%	Disposed	525.4% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	F	333	$30.90	$10,290	25,690 Direct	-1.28%	Disposed	525.4% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	F	466	$30.90	$14,399	25,224 Direct	-1.81%	Disposed	525.4% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	F	777	$30.90	$24,009	24,447 Direct	-3.08%	Disposed	525.4% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	M	643	—	—	25,090 Direct	+2.63%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	M	714	—	—	25,804 Direct	+2.85%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	M	1,000	—	—	7,045 Direct	-12.43%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	M	1,666	—	—	5,379 Direct	-23.65%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	M	643	—	—	4,736 Direct	-11.95%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2012	NTAP	M	714	—	—	4,022 Direct	-15.08%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
April 24, 2012	NTAP	M	10,000	—	—	10,000 Direct	—	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
April 24, 2012	NTAP	F	3,668	$38.68	$141,878	6,332 Direct	-36.68%	Disposed	399.6% (price as of 2026-08-20)
April 24, 2012	NTAP	M	10,000	—	—	0 Direct	-100.00%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 24, 2012	NTAP	M	8,333	$20.69	$172,410	9,858 Direct	+546.43%	Acquired	834.0% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 24, 2012	NTAP	M	5,000	$15.59	$77,950	14,858 Direct	+50.72%	Acquired	1139.5% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 24, 2012	NTAP	S	14,858	$43.20	$641,866	0 Direct	-100.00%	Disposed	347.3% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 24, 2012	NTAP	M	5,000	—	—	6,875 Direct	-42.11%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 24, 2012	NTAP	M	8,333	—	—	16,667 Direct	-33.33%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 17, 2012	NTAP	M	2,500	—	—	2,500 Direct	—	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 17, 2012	NTAP	F	975	$42.20	$41,145	1,525 Direct	-39.00%	Disposed	357.9% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 17, 2012	NTAP	M	2,500	—	—	2,500 Direct	-50.00%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
July 1, 2011	NTAP	M	1,875	$15.59	$29,231	25,221 Direct	+8.03%	Acquired	1139.5% (price as of 2026-08-20)
July 1, 2011	NTAP	M	3,125	$20.69	$64,656	28,346 Direct	+12.39%	Acquired	834.0% (price as of 2026-08-20)
July 1, 2011	NTAP	M	9,375	$37.62	$352,688	37,721 Direct	+33.07%	Acquired	413.7% (price as of 2026-08-20)
July 1, 2011	NTAP	S	37,721	$53.92	$2,033,916	0 Direct	-100.00%	Disposed	258.4% (price as of 2026-08-20)
July 1, 2011	NTAP	M	1,875	—	—	11,875 Direct	-13.64%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
July 1, 2011	NTAP	M	3,125	—	—	25,000 Direct	-11.11%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
July 1, 2011	NTAP	M	9,375	—	—	56,250 Direct	-14.29%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	M	1,666	—	—	21,976 Direct	+8.20%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	F	777	$49.35	$38,345	21,199 Direct	-3.54%	Disposed	291.6% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	M	714	—	—	21,913 Direct	+3.37%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	F	333	$49.35	$16,434	21,580 Direct	-1.52%	Disposed	291.6% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	M	643	—	—	22,223 Direct	+2.98%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	F	300	$49.35	$14,805	21,923 Direct	-1.35%	Disposed	291.6% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	M	1,667	—	—	23,590 Direct	+7.60%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	F	778	$49.35	$38,394	22,812 Direct	-3.30%	Disposed	291.6% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	M	1,000	—	—	23,812 Direct	+4.38%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	F	466	$49.35	$22,997	23,346 Direct	-1.96%	Disposed	291.6% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	M	1,666	—	—	0 Direct	-100.00%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	M	714	—	—	11,355 Direct	-5.92%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	M	643	—	—	10,712 Direct	-5.66%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	M	1,667	—	—	9,045 Direct	-15.56%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2011	NTAP	M	1,000	—	—	8,045 Direct	-11.06%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 2, 2011	NTAP	M	1,667	—	—	21,088 Direct	+8.58%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 2, 2011	NTAP	F	778	$53.31	$41,475	20,310 Direct	-3.69%	Disposed	262.5% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 2, 2011	NTAP	M	1,667	—	—	1,666 Direct	-50.02%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 1, 2011	NTAP	M	6,250	—	—	13,061 Direct	+91.76%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 1, 2011	NTAP	F	2,917	$53.22	$155,243	10,144 Direct	-22.33%	Disposed	263.1% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 1, 2011	NTAP	M	16,667	—	—	26,811 Direct	+164.30%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 1, 2011	NTAP	F	7,390	$53.22	$393,296	19,421 Direct	-27.56%	Disposed	263.1% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 1, 2011	NTAP	A	70,000	—	—	70,000 Direct	—	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 1, 2011	NTAP	M	16,667	—	—	33,333 Direct	-33.33%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 1, 2011	NTAP	M	6,250	—	—	18,750 Direct	-25.00%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 1, 2011	NTAP	A	21,900	—	—	40,650 Direct	+116.80%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
April 24, 2011	NTAP	M	10,000	—	—	10,000 Direct	—	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
April 24, 2011	NTAP	F	3,668	$51.02	$187,141	6,332 Direct	-36.68%	Disposed	278.8% (price as of 2026-08-20)
April 24, 2011	NTAP	M	10,000	—	—	10,000 Direct	-50.00%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
March 22, 2011	NTAP	M	3,125	$20.69	$64,656	4,660 Direct	+203.58%	Acquired	834.0% (price as of 2026-08-20)
March 22, 2011	NTAP	M	1,875	$15.59	$29,231	6,535 Direct	+40.24%	Acquired	1139.5% (price as of 2026-08-20)
March 22, 2011	NTAP	S	6,535	$47.85	$312,700	0 Direct	-100.00%	Disposed	303.8% (price as of 2026-08-20)
March 22, 2011	NTAP	M	1,875	—	—	13,750 Direct	-12.00%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
March 22, 2011	NTAP	M	3,125	—	—	28,125 Direct	-10.00%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 17, 2011	NTAP	M	2,500	—	—	2,500 Direct	—	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 17, 2011	NTAP	F	965	$54.77	$52,853	1,535 Direct	-38.60%	Disposed	252.8% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Feb. 17, 2011	NTAP	M	2,500	—	—	5,000 Direct	-33.33%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Dec. 7, 2010	NTAP	M	1,875	$15.59	$29,231	2,423 Direct	+342.15%	Acquired	1139.5% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Dec. 7, 2010	NTAP	M	3,125	$20.69	$64,656	5,548 Direct	+128.97%	Acquired	834.0% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Dec. 7, 2010	NTAP	M	9,375	$37.62	$352,688	14,923 Direct	+168.98%	Acquired	413.7% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Dec. 7, 2010	NTAP	S	14,923	$54.27	$809,871	0 Direct	-100.00%	Disposed	256.1% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Dec. 7, 2010	NTAP	M	1,875	—	—	15,625 Direct	-10.71%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Dec. 7, 2010	NTAP	M	3,125	—	—	31,250 Direct	-9.09%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Dec. 7, 2010	NTAP	M	9,375	—	—	65,625 Direct	-12.50%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Sept. 10, 2010	NTAP	M	2,500	$15.59	$38,975	5,537 Direct	+82.32%	Acquired	1139.5% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Sept. 10, 2010	NTAP	M	3,125	$20.69	$64,656	8,662 Direct	+56.44%	Acquired	834.0% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Sept. 10, 2010	NTAP	S	8,662	$46.35	$401,484	0 Direct	-100.00%	Disposed	316.9% (price as of 2026-08-20)
Sept. 10, 2010	NTAP	M	2,500	—	—	17,500 Direct	-12.50%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
Sept. 10, 2010	NTAP	M	3,125	—	—	34,375 Direct	-8.33%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	M	1,667	—	—	1,667 Direct	—	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	M	715	—	—	2,382 Direct	+42.89%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	M	643	—	—	3,025 Direct	+26.99%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	M	1,667	—	—	4,692 Direct	+55.11%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	M	1,000	—	—	5,692 Direct	+21.31%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	F	300	$41.22	$12,366	5,392 Direct	-5.27%	Disposed	368.8% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	F	778	$41.22	$32,069	4,614 Direct	-14.43%	Disposed	368.8% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	F	778	$41.22	$32,069	3,836 Direct	-16.86%	Disposed	368.8% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	F	333	$41.22	$13,726	3,503 Direct	-8.68%	Disposed	368.8% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	F	466	$41.22	$19,209	3,037 Direct	-13.30%	Disposed	368.8% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	M	1,667	—	—	1,666 Direct	-50.02%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	M	715	—	—	15,379 Direct	-4.44%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	M	643	—	—	14,736 Direct	-4.18%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	M	1,667	—	—	13,069 Direct	-11.31%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 19, 2010	NTAP	M	1,000	—	—	12,069 Direct	-7.65%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 4, 2010	NTAP	M	1,042	$20.69	$21,559	13,021 Direct	+8.70%	Acquired	834.0% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 4, 2010	NTAP	S	1,042	$39.05	$40,690	11,979 Direct	-8.00%	Disposed	394.9% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 4, 2010	NTAP	S	11,979	$39.05	$467,780	0 Direct	-100.00%	Disposed	394.9% (price as of 2026-08-20)
June 4, 2010	NTAP	M	1,042	—	—	37,500 Direct	-2.70%	Disposed	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 1, 2010	NTAP	M	16,667	—	—	18,167 Direct	+1111.13%	Acquired	(price as of 2026-08-20)
June 1, 2010	NTAP	F	7,077	$37.62	$266,237	11,090 Direct	-38.96%	Disposed	413.7% (price as of 2026-08-20)

Showing latest 100 of 133 transactions

P = Open-market purchase · S = Sale · A = Grant/award · M = Option exercise · G = Gift · F = Tax withholding

Insider transactions are not a recommendation; sales are often driven by liquidity or tax reasons.

Derivative holdings (Form 4 Table II)

Options, RSUs and convertible securities reported on Form 4 Table II.

Date	Ticker	Security	Underlying	Exercise price	Expiration	Shares	A/D
June 19, 2012	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (1,000)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	1,000	Disposed
June 19, 2012	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (1,666)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	1,666	Disposed
June 19, 2012	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (643)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	643	Disposed
June 19, 2012	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (714)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	714	Disposed
April 24, 2012	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (10,000)	$0.00	April 25, 2012	10,000	Disposed
Feb. 24, 2012	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (5,000)	$15.59	Feb. 16, 2016	5,000	Disposed
Feb. 24, 2012	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (8,333)	$20.69	May 31, 2016	8,333	Disposed
Feb. 17, 2012	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (2,500)	$0.00	Feb. 17, 2013	2,500	Disposed
July 1, 2011	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (1,875)	$15.59	Feb. 16, 2016	1,875	Disposed
July 1, 2011	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (3,125)	$20.69	May 31, 2016	3,125	Disposed
July 1, 2011	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (9,375)	$37.62	May 31, 2017	9,375	Disposed
June 19, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (1,666)	$0.00	June 19, 2011	1,666	Disposed
June 19, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (714)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	714	Disposed
June 19, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (643)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	643	Disposed
June 19, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (1,667)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	1,667	Disposed
June 19, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (1,000)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	1,000	Disposed
June 2, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (1,667)	$0.00	June 2, 2012	1,667	Disposed
June 1, 2011	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (70,000)	$53.22	May 31, 2018	70,000	Acquired
June 1, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (16,667)	$0.00	June 1, 2013	16,667	Disposed
June 1, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (6,250)	$0.00	—	6,250	Disposed
June 1, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (21,900)	$0.00	—	21,900	Acquired
April 24, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (10,000)	$0.00	April 25, 2012	10,000	Disposed
March 22, 2011	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (1,875)	$15.59	Feb. 16, 2016	1,875	Disposed
March 22, 2011	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (3,125)	$20.69	May 31, 2016	3,125	Disposed
Feb. 17, 2011	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (2,500)	$0.00	Feb. 17, 2013	2,500	Disposed
Dec. 7, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (1,875)	$15.59	Feb. 16, 2016	1,875	Disposed
Dec. 7, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (3,125)	$20.69	May 31, 2016	3,125	Disposed
Dec. 7, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (9,375)	$37.62	May 31, 2017	9,375	Disposed
Sept. 10, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (2,500)	$15.59	Feb. 16, 2016	2,500	Disposed
Sept. 10, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (3,125)	$20.69	May 31, 2016	3,125	Disposed
June 19, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (1,667)	$0.00	June 19, 2011	1,667	Disposed
June 19, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (715)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	715	Disposed
June 19, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (643)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	643	Disposed
June 19, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (1,667)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	1,667	Disposed
June 19, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (1,000)	$0.00	June 19, 2013	1,000	Disposed
June 4, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (1,042)	$20.69	May 31, 2016	1,042	Disposed
June 2, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (1,667)	$0.00	June 2, 2012	1,667	Disposed
June 1, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (75,000)	$37.62	May 31, 2017	75,000	Acquired
June 1, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (16,667)	$0.00	June 1, 2013	16,667	Disposed
June 1, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (25,000)	$0.00	—	25,000	Acquired
May 28, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (1,250)	$15.59	Feb. 16, 2016	1,250	Disposed
May 28, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (2,083)	$20.69	May 31, 2016	2,083	Disposed
April 24, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (2,500)	$0.00	April 28, 2010	2,500	Disposed
April 24, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (10,000)	$0.00	April 25, 2012	10,000	Disposed
April 1, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (8,750)	$15.59	Feb. 16, 2016	8,750	Disposed
April 1, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (9,375)	$20.69	May 31, 2016	9,375	Disposed
Feb. 17, 2010	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit	Common Stock (2,500)	$0.00	Feb. 17, 2013	2,500	Disposed
Jan. 4, 2010	NTAP	Incentive Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (3,198)	$19.17	May 2, 2014	3,198	Disposed
Jan. 4, 2010	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)	Common Stock (2,772)	$19.17	May 2, 2014	2,772	Disposed

Exercise/conversion price is blank when not applicable (e.g. RSUs).

Initial ownership (Form 3) 11 holdings

Securities held when first becoming an insider, per SEC Form 3.

Date	Ticker	Security	Shares	Ownership
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Incentive Stock Option (right to buy)→ Common Stock (3,198)	3,198	Direct
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)→ Common Stock (30,000)	30,000	Direct
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)→ Common Stock (2,772)	2,772	Direct
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Non-Qualified Stock Option (right to buy)→ Common Stock (50,000)	50,000	Direct
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit→ Common Stock (2,500)	2,500	Direct
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit→ Common Stock (3,333)	3,333	Direct
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit→ Common Stock (30,000)	30,000	Direct
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit→ Common Stock (5,000)	5,000	Direct
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit→ Common Stock (10,000)	10,000	Direct
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit→ Common Stock (66,667)	66,667	Direct
Oct. 20, 2009	NTAP	Restricted Stock Unit→ Common Stock (16,094)	16,094	Direct

Compensation (DEF 14A)

Matched by name from proxy statements (DEF 14A) — verify against the filing.

NTAP

Fiscal year	Salary	Bonus	Stock awards	Option awards	Non-equity incentive	Pension change	Other	Total
2014	$222,115	—	—	—	—	—	$763	$290,074
2013	$543,750	—	—	—	$287,100	—	$1,866	$2,956,439
2012	$512,500	—	—	—	$285,258	—	$656	$3,176,297

Figures from the Summary Compensation Table of the company's proxy statement (DEF 14A). Compensation is not a recommendation.